Transcription - Social Links - Links to projects

In this episode we are joined by Gabriel Hicks of Mythic Grove.  In this episode, we dive into being a Cosplayer, voice acting, and being humble in the face of success.

You can find the game Kind Words by Popcannibal here: https://popcannibal.com/kindwords/

Be sure to head on over to www.thebardpodcast.com to check out our other shows, tabletop products, and some sweet merch!

Guest Links:
https://twitter.com/GabeJamesGames
https://twitter.com/MythicGrove
https://twitter.com/HiddenTreasVN
https://www.twitch.tv/gabejamesgames
https://www.patreon.com/GabeJamesGames
https://gabejamesgames.itch.io/

Gabe Hicks_BB_trascriptexport

Devin: [00:00:00] Hey friends, Devin again, thank you for tuning into the Bardic Babble podcast. Today, we have an amazing guest. He has done a lot within the digital and the physical tabletop RPG space for game design. He does a lot of cosplay and is just genuinely an awesome person to have gotten the opportunity to talk to. Today. I am joined by Gabriel Hicks. We've got a lot to unpack in this episode, so don't go anywhere.

And today I am joing by the hyper talented Gabriel Hicks or @Gabejamesgames on Twitter. How are you doing today gabe?

Gabe: [00:03:39] I'm good. It's very warm. But outside of that, I'm good.

Devin: [00:03:43] Yeah. I know the feeling I'm in Nevada, so we're starting to look into the hundreds.

Gabe: [00:03:48] I'm so, so sorry.

Devin: [00:03:49] It's, it's, it's a dry heat, as everyone says, it's not as bad. So tell us a little bit about yourself and the projects you work on.

Gabe: [00:04:01] Okay. So I, I work on, uh, probably too much. I am. A cosplayer. I am a game designer for both digital and tabletop role playing games. I'm currently designing a tabletop hero system based around the idea that the power that you pick can be anything that you want.

And it's entirely up to your imagination, the gameplay and mechanical aspects come from. Are there specific skills that you pull out of the game system? And then it's like, okay, my power is over fire, but then here's the mechanics for the gameplay of how that actually manifests. Um, I make a lot of fantasy content, including writing, like Homebrew stuff for Pathfinder and Dungeons and Dragons.

I am working on a digital goblin dating simulator game called Hidden Treasures. That takes tabletop aspects of like, strength, charisma intelligence, and then rolling a digital number and adding that bonus to it, to determine success failure. I am doing some voice direction for a couple new voice actors that wanted to delve into the field.

And one of the biggest things it's just getting over your self doubt of being like, can I, or can I not do this? And I do a lot of that under the umbrella of the group that I founded called Mythic Grove, where stories are made.

Devin: [00:05:16] There is a lot to unpack there. It sounds like you were pretty excited when talking about the game design stuff. So I want to start there. So right at the end there, you mentioned mythic Grove.

Gabe: [00:05:29] Yes.

Devin: [00:05:29] What are some of the projects you have that you have under, under Mythic Grove? I know there's like Source Code and stuff like that lurking in the wings.

Gabe: [00:05:37] So Source Code was the first tabletop game that I ever made. And it is a cyberpunk tabletop role playing game where I added in augmentations.

I added in psychotics, I added in different types of ammunition. And I was so overzealous that I tried to include everything that I could. And when I first made it, I was super pumped about it. And the more I looked at it over time, the more I was like, I could have refined this and I could've made it better.

So I've actually been working for the last year and a half, two years in my free time. And every now and then I'll just pick it up and like go to the next section and improve it a little bit. Revamp it, rewrite it. So it feels cleaner. It feels better. And I'm, I've been working on it for, yeah, like over two years for it now to make essentially a version 2.0 that I'm planning to have done before the end of the year.

And just going through like. I did a Kickstarter for it, way, way back. So I'm really excited to A, just post an update years later, like, Hey, here's version 2.0 of this thing that you helped me make, but then also like put it out to new people who haven't gotten a chance to see it in places

Devin: [00:06:39] That's exciting, especially with the wealth of knowledge you have now when it comes  to, to game design and layout and everything like that.

And I know it's exciting to go back and do a, do a 2.0 now when it comes to additional products, I also saw that you have a 5E mod on your itch.io. What all, what all do you hack in that?

Gabe: [00:07:01] That is  what I call the class modifier module, which I don't even really know where I came up with the name. I was like, this is, this sounds fancy.

This sounds cool. Let's do it. And what it is, it is the creation of your characters. But instead of taking like ability to have increases from race saying that this one is smarter, But this one is stronger. This one is more intelligent. It takes that ability score, increase and puts it related to the class itself.

If you're a barbarian, you've spent that time to increase your strength, maybe, or increase the physical constitution of your body. If you are a Paladin, maybe you are stronger or you know how to lead people better with a charismatic nature. And it does it by a three step process. So whenever you're going down the first step, second step for the third step, it allows you to pick between an ability to score increase for two different stats.

And part of the reason I did that is because with a lot of the previous ability score increases, it was a bonus of plus two in one thing and plus one and another. So the reason I built it this way is that way you could still have that plus two in one thing. And plus one and another, or you could have plus one across the board for the three individual stats that come up that way, if you want to build a character up and then you get like you, you roll a 17 and wisdom and wisdom isn't . one of the choices that you have for this building, then you don't have to feel restricted to be like, okay, well, I'll have to pick something that will make my wisdom higher or balance it off. You can actively make the choice, like, you know what, I'm going to put that 15 and strength. Cause then I can bump it up to, without having to focus on what like character race that I'm picking to do it.

That can be more of a fluff and flavor and lore to it. And yeah, inside of the class module, I asked questions like. What kind of rogue is this character? Are they literally the dashing rogue? Are they, who is the sneaking and assassin? Are they a thief? And if so, why do they do it? Because it's fun because of necessity, like in trying to ask those questions, because especially when you're a new player coming into this world, and you're playing with people who have been doing this for years, a lot of the time people have so many questions or answers already in their head.

But a lot of new players are like, I just wanted to make a sneaky person and asking questions in a narrative way, but in a way that feels relevant to the character creation process. I was hoping to kind of bridge those two and make it easier.

Devin: [00:09:16] No, I like that. It's a, it's a good mentality to go into the product with. And then who did the, uh, the character art for that?

Gabe: [00:09:23] So that was Rachel at Tallinier T a L L I N I E R. And I found Rachel's artwork just by, just from Twitter. And I was like, Oh my God, it's so good. And then I would like, had him following her for a while. And I think he saw something that I made and she like commented on it and then followed back.

And eventually I was like, okay, okay. You know what? I'm just going to ask them to ask, Hey, Rachel, would you be willing to maybe work on this thing potentially that I'm, she's like, sure. And I was like, wait, what. So it's, it's been fantastic working with Rachel on that. And I commissioned her for art and like, you should do it for art, but then also I wanted to emphasize how important it was.

So I even, I even clarified on the post that whenever I've been selling copies of it, essentially, Rachel just gets a payment at usually at the end of the month, because that's when, like the stuff is all through and sorted and I can actually do my budgeting, but I've been giving her half of the profits because.

People part of the reason people are excited to see this thing is because her art makes one hell of a difference. It brings it to life more.

Devin: [00:10:24] Oh yeah. And that's, you know, it's, the audio is one half of a movie kind of a mentality. So I get that. Yes, exactly. So when it comes to, to game design and layout and the product pipeline and everything like that, is there.

A shining idol or a specific product that you find yourself going back to and just, you know, every time you're looking at it, you're finding something different, something greater that you want to incorporate in your own.

Gabe: [00:10:52] I think lately it has been a game called Tales from the Loop and I, I played it. I played it recently and I had never heard of it.

I had never played it. I didn't know anything about it. And when we sat down for character creation and then we were done with character creation in an hour, and I knew what I was doing. I was like, this is what I want more of what I make to be like, because I knew what I was doing and I was ready to play the game and an hour.

I love that.

Devin: [00:11:23] That's awesome. Yeah. The simplified pipeline of getting new players in is, is great.

Gabe: [00:11:28] Yes, because you can, if you make a game getting into it's simple, you can always add more stuff later on, or as the game becomes more advanced.

Devin: [00:11:36] Right.

Gabe: [00:11:37] But if you literally just be like to do, to do these 10 things, you do any of these things.

And if you're like, that's how they just get into the game. Great. Because like I said, you level up or as the story goes farther, you can literally, we emphasize and on level two, this thing happens. But on level three, this thing happens. But if you give people. All of these variety of skills, abilities, actions, different action types.

It can be horribly overwhelming. And if it's horribly overwhelming, the game can be amazing, but people might never play it because they never, I get that far.

Devin: [00:12:07] A classic conversation I have with one of my colleague DMS, one of my best friends. He loves Pathfinder. And I have a hard time with Pathfinder just because it is a spreadsheet of a game just to get into it.

But lately I have found kids on bikes and that one has a very simplified character creation pipeline.

Gabe: [00:12:27] I've heard about that.

Devin: [00:12:28] It's a lot of fun.

Gabe: [00:12:29] Yeah.

Devin: [00:12:29] If you like Tales from the Loop, I think you're like a kids on bikes or kids in space or Kids on Brooms.

Gabe: [00:12:35] I will take a look.

Devin: [00:12:36] And then you know Tales from the Loop. Just got a, uh, a TV show. Yeah.

Gabe: [00:12:39] What?

Devin: [00:12:40] Yeah. Yeah. Tales from the loop. I think it's on Prime maybe. Yeah. It's a kind of in the Black Mirror.

Gabe: [00:12:46] Seasons 2, There's a season one already hold up. It's nothing else. Nothing else matters.

Devin: [00:12:53] It's very good. It does the, you know, the Black Mirror, each episode is an encapsulation of a bit of technology. And then the technology is kind of your lens to a part of the human condition. And then throughout the episode,

Gabe: [00:13:07] oh my gosh, they call it the anti black mirror.

Devin: [00:13:10] Yeah!

Gabe: [00:13:10] This is everything that I've cared about.

Devin: [00:13:11] It's very, this is...

Gabe: [00:13:13] Nothing else matters, now.

Devin: [00:13:14] A lot of it is done through the scope of, of kids. So a lot of it has kind of that naivety of being a kid.

Gabe: [00:13:22] Yes. Yeah, there wasn't. That was another really interesting role.

Like it's emphasized Tales from the Loop taht kids can't die. So it's like if, if you had that notion in the beginning, like level one, like if there was a game where like level one characters can't die. I think that that'd be really interesting because literally then you give people the understanding that, okay, I can explore how this game works.

I can explore what I'm doing. And I'm not going to be punished for having a lack of knowledge.

Devin: [00:13:50] That's an interesting concept. I wonder if it could be. So you have like your session zero one session, zero two could be, you know, you just play around in a sandbox or an arena

Gabe: [00:14:00] Like it you  emphasized in the first recessions characters can't die, then people are going to do probably stupid things.

But I mean, that's the way that they're going to learn. So if you, like, you emphasize that and they're like, okay, Now, if you're out of the third session, you're out of the Academy or whatever.

Devin: [00:14:15] Right. No, I like that. That's yeah, that's smart. That's it really easy way to bridge it too. With everything going on in the world right now, just the, insurmountable mountain of crap going on in the world, do you find yourself more creatively active and raring to go, or just kind of the intermittent spurts that I personally have been dealing with?

Gabe: [00:14:37] Uh, it's been a really irritating mix of both more often than not. I have found myself able to be productive for multiple reasons. One of them being, because sitting idly while all of this is happening. Let's me sit in my own head and I don't necessarily always want that. It gets frustrating, but also I'm, I'm aware that as I am not the only one sitting at home and being frustrated and irritated or confused by it, there's a bunch of people that want to see new things and enjoy new things.

And there's a satisfaction knowing that things I'm creating are giving people stuck at home. The serotonin that like I'm also craving. And that makes me feel better and more motivated and reminds me even when sometimes happy feelings are temporary. That also means that the really bad ones are temporary too.

Devin: [00:15:26] Does it like there's a lot of pressure knowing that there's, you know, even a small group, one table of people that are there utilizing our product to make their days better. Do you, do you feel. Pressured to continue and just keep working.

Gabe: [00:15:40] Nope, not anymore. I used to. And one of the things that I had to hit was I had to realize I can make things for myself and other people can enjoy them. I don't have to make things for other people.

Devin: [00:15:53] And that's kind of like the Hill off in the distance for a lot of artists is they always forget that you can, you can create for yourself. You can draw for yourself. Um, this podcast in a way is my way of, I like talking with people and, well, I can't talk with people right now.

Gabe: [00:16:09] So I used to go downtown and dance for fun, and I used to do it occasionally. It was, it was my way of working through like social anxiety of being. Out and about, but by myself, because I would, I wouldn't go out dancing with friends. I didn't really have anyone around me that wanted to go out. So I would go and then dance and try to meet new people.

And like, even if, just for a moment, like combat my social anxieties, because even if. I didn't have the best time in my head. I'm like, you know what, but I did it, I did it. And that means I can do pretty much anything and not really being able to go out and dance and like, enjoy that. It drives me mad.

Devin: [00:16:46] I understand that.

Gabe: [00:16:47] Cause I didn't realize how much I missed it, so I couldn't do it.

Devin: [00:16:50] That's yeah, that's it a hundred percent. Exactly. Its that, a long boarding has always been one for me. I'm not the most balanced individual. But I just, I love longboarding and just being on a long board. So this is kind of my by substitute, if you will,

Gabe: [00:17:05] your digital longboard.

Devin: [00:17:06] Yeah. Yeah. So you also, you mentioned that you do some, some voice acting. How long have you been doing that for?

Gabe: [00:17:14] Two years!

Devin: [00:17:15] Have you kind of stepped up the ladder or did you get into some pretty. Big rolls right off the bat.

Gabe: [00:17:22] Uh, the first one, well, I got into was an accident and I did, I auditioned for it. And then didn't realize that I had, they had, they had forgotten to send me an email saying I made it through the first and second round, but then I got an email, like three months later saying I made it through the third round of auditions and I'm like, I forgot this was a still a thing. And then after that I was like, okay, well, I like doing this.

I'm going to, I'm going to look into it more. I'm going to. Try and pursue it more. I'm going to, I'm going to keep looking into it. And I started like looking at indie roles. I started looking, going into projects that people just wanted voices for it because I don't think I want to be the biggest voice actor.

I don't really want that per se. I like the idea of people knowing that I do it and people enjoying my voice and people enjoying what I bring to the table when I do voiceover stuff. But I like, I like working on projects that might be considered smaller or like the indie projects, because then I feel like I can do more and be more involved in that.

Devin: [00:18:21] Right. And be a little more experimental.

Gabe: [00:18:22] Yes, exactly.

Devin: [00:18:24] Where do you normally look for and, or find your, your gigs?

Gabe: [00:18:29] More often than not, it's actually been Twitter. Uh, there's a couple of websites that I've used that are helpful. It's, it's more of a specific thing. Whenever you're looking at websites, it'll be like, here's these kinds or here's these kinds.

And the systems for them work really well, but it's also a very like "upload it here and then someone may listen to it" and they don't always get to that point. If it's on Twitter, you can usually usually have better interactions. And sometimes people, when they're looking for voice actors, Um, your personality will play into it a lot.

If you come across as a friendly, reasonable kind person, they may prefer to go with you. Because if that you're, if you're a friendly person and then they hear your voice and they're like, this is the personality that I wanted and this voice fits it. If you do a fantastic get to know who you are, sometimes it can change people's opinions.

Or later on down the line, if they're like uhhh this person was decent, but for this person was, this person was really good, but I don't like who they are as a person. So then I'm not really interested. So, but people post stuff like that on Twitter all the time, especially if you know, like specific groups to follow, because there are casting directors and casting groups and indie groups that are posting about their projects consistently.

And there's a huge network of like freelance voice actors on Twitter that I've slowly gotten to know more and more of the people in that community. And even if it's a competitive industry, a lot of the time it's also really supportive because people will share out casting calls that they see, even if they have auditioned for it already.

Devin: [00:20:06] That's interesting because you go through the websites and it's, you know, you're thrown into the shark tank essentially, and it's generally the bigger ones with the more portfolio work they get pulled, but then. On these smaller casting groups on Twitter, it's the rising tide makes all ships float kind of a mentality. That's neat.

Gabe: [00:20:23] Yeah, exactly. I was reassured that there's, there's always people who focus more on a competitive side, but that doesn't have to stay the case. And I've been reassured of that more often lately.

Devin: [00:20:36] What was your favorite role that you got for, for VA or VA work?

Gabe: [00:20:41] Huh? No, if I have a favorite, but one of the most fun that I can think of immediately, and I say I dont have a favorite, just because personalities are so different.

So it's fun being the different people, but one of the most fun ones I've done is I got to play a character that was. Very unlike anything I've done. And it is a Yeti who basically fell in love and, and it was, it was someone that I had known indirectly. They're like, Hey, like I loved your voice. I'd love to work with you.

I'm like, cool. And I'm like, Oh my God, this is so adorable. Strange care about everything I'm like here. Just, I, I don't feel you're paying me, but can I bring money back at you to help make it happen faster? And it was. Cause I've, I've got, I've gotten to play a human that became the human, but it was originally a briefcase.

I played a vampire. I've played a, like a young kid who was injured. I have done a couple like commercials for websites and it's always been fun, but that one was, it was so different from anything else expected. I'm like, this is. Exactly why I love doing this stuff.

Devin: [00:21:52] So then the other big arm, I guess, if you want to call it that at least that I know you for is a lot of your cosplay work.

Gabe: [00:22:00] Yes.

Devin: [00:22:01] That's actually how I found you originally.

Gabe: [00:22:04] Oh no.

Devin: [00:22:04] Was your Harrow

Gabe: [00:22:05] Oh yes. Okay..

Devin: [00:22:07] I had actually just gotten into the Dragon Prince. I, I love that show.

Gabe: [00:22:11] I'm actually, I actually commissioned someone recently cause I like I'm like, I. Don't I can't, I can't  sew for my life, um, I've tried and I terrible at it. I thrift store clothing, and then I like kind of alter it, but no, I can't.

I can not sew. But I found someone who likes to do costume design stuff who was actually helping me make a proper Harrow outfit. And helping me like redesign the crown and everything. Cause I will not let that end. That's one of my favorite characters. I'm also playing to Corvus from the Dragon Prince. I, I have done Claude from Fire Emblem.

I have done a humanoid version of the predator, from Alien versus Predator. I have done ooh. Uh, Matt Cella. I have done Lance from She-ra, the dad of Bo. I have done oh lord. What is his name? Kaname Tosen from Bleach. I just, I love doing it. I love so much cosplay. I've I've done a heartless Kingdom Hearts. I like getting to pretend to be someone else and then dress up.

And then especially when like conventions can reasonably happen again, being able to. That role play that played pretend, or like people are, people are excited to see you being excited about being a character. And there is nothing like that feeling right.

Devin: [00:23:32] That that's striking the pose and their eyes just light up.

Gabe: [00:23:35] Yes, exactly.

Devin: [00:23:36] I thought about flirting with it and then just kind of going past it, but I'm, I'm very curious. I also. Recently dove into the Geralt comment thread there.

Gabe: [00:23:46] Oh yeah. The, the whole, the whole Geralt.

Devin: [00:23:48] Yeah. The I'm not being racist, but enabling it, BS that happens in there.

Gabe: [00:23:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So here's, here's what I've encountered a lot. Whenever I do something that people want to argue about people don't, it is not something that people are deserved to have my time. Oftentimes I will try to make time to have those conversations with people. And usually they're not prepared for the conversation.

They think that they will make a comment and then it'll get a big mad reaction out of me. But I've been dealing with stupid people like this, all of my life. And. They it, the idea that I am a black person and my hair, my hair is just dreadlocks. Like, I, I can't really do much with that unless I take it out of dreadlocks.

And they're like, well, your hair is even a little bit gray and your eyes are yellow. So, you must be Heimdall. . And if I, if it says Gablet of Rivia on it, they're like, well, you know what people aren't obligated to read. And I'm like, I don't, I don't understand what this conversation even is.

Devin: [00:24:52] That was one of the weakest defenses that I saw is "I'm not racist. Just some people don't read the captions. I'm sorry, what?"

Gabe: [00:24:59] Yes. And then, and then we were getting more people defending it. When I said, please stop telling me I'm Heimdall when it's specifically Geralt. And then like, well, Gabe actually, you know, and most of my, most of my responses were, so I actively and tried to kindly ask for something and then you are trying to rationalize why that is not the case.

Great, wonderful, goodbye.

Devin: [00:25:25] So that's. You you, you handle the thread brilliantly. You, you always, you follow up with your emotional context. Really good anecdotal evidence. Do you ever just hit that block button? Just get it out of your face.

Gabe: [00:25:38] Yes. Yes. I have. The block button usually comes if they, say something that's actively stupid on and did not read something I had said before, but wanted to make themselves have attention because if they're looking for a platform to get attention, I'm the wrong one.

I, I have like spend this time and if, if my effort was wasted, I'm like, you know what? At the end of the day, I still have the satisfaction of knowing that. I can do what I love and get paid. And you can yell on the internet to someone who doesn't actively care about your opinion. I'll I'll block them and go about my day.

And one, one good thing that has come out of it. Is that I have been reassured about the people who support the things that I do and the things that I care about. And if I don't have the emotional energy to try to have those conversations, there are plenty of people that support me and would try to do it themselves, or just like, yeah, it's, it's reassuring.

Devin: [00:26:34] That's awesome. I can only imagine, especially after probably years of just feeling. Tucked into one niche of cosplay.

Gabe: [00:26:43] Yeah. Cause it's, I there's, there's more black characters than there used to be. I'm really excited about that, but there's, there's also a reason like black cosplayers are much more reserved about not doing characters that aren't black or people, people talking about the argument of.

Well, you know, in the traditional Laura Heimdall is described as the whitest of all. So it's ridiculous that they're saying that. And I'm like, that comment has nothing to do with this person disregarding what I'm saying and saying that I look like Idris Elba in his wig , please go away.

Devin: [00:27:13] So I actually, at least the first hour of the Critical Bard's In Unison talk.

And one of the things that you said was you felt like you couldn't be characters, do you, especially with this Geralt cosplay in your direct rear view mirror. Do you still feel that way? Are you feeling more motivated to dive into Deku? Was your, was your example?

Gabe: [00:27:37] Yes.

Devin: [00:27:38] Are you, are you feeling more motivated to dive into those now?

Gabe: [00:27:41] Half and half? I want to, I, I don't want to deal with people, but I realize no matter what I do, I'm going to. And there was, there was one person who responded saying, this is what I'm afraid of because of people responding to me. And then I actually messaged them and had a conversation about it. And they had felt better about it after I had talked to them saying, you know what, maybe I will like cosplay the Mask character from Sailor Moon, just cause I, I should do it because I want to.

And then it was like, well, well dang. Okay. If, if this person was hesitant and felt better, because I said I was going to do it still regardless, then it's like, it's almost worth it dealing with those 30 people who want to complain. Cause that one person who reminds me of myself now feels motivated to do it. Because I did it.

Devin: [00:28:27] In that same conversation you had mentioned. If there, if there wasn't a pathway, you were going to make one. If there isn't a door, you're going to make one, if not for yourself, then for the person behind you. Yeah, I, and that just struck me so hard.

Gabe: [00:28:41] I'm in game design because in my university, we had to do an internship.

And the person that I interned with was a man who ran a Kickstarter board game company. And the internship lasted like my last semester. And he was one of the friendliest people I've ever met in my life who didn't ask for anything, but wanted to give me anything that he could offer me. He took me and after the internship ended, he stayed in contact with me.

I stayed in touch, we still hung out. I still came to his office to see what stuff was happening. Uh, he let me work on like game design stuff. And then they gave me credit for things that I did with him. He took me to GDC. You took me to Origins. He took me to PAX. He took me to PAX East. The man took me to so many places didn't ask for anything.

It never cost me anything. He always made sure I had a space to sleep. He, I even like went with him in the car. Like every time we traveled, unless it was like an hour away, he would take me to the place with him, never asked for anything and like motivated me to do the source code stuff in the first place.

Motivated me to actually get out and network work and talk to these people.

Devin: [00:29:47] That's incredible. What, what was his name? What is his name?

Gabe: [00:29:50] His name is Luke. Luke. Peterschmidt well is Luke Peterschmidt and I still talk to him. I am now, but the man is, he never asked for anything. And I realized it's like, how much? It's not even like, it has to be a lot of work, but it is work, making sure that I have these opportunities.

And I'm like, he did that for me. And I have the ability to do that for somebody else. I appreciate the education that my university got for me, but I would always argue that the most valuable thing I got out of that was the internship with Luke. So I actually had someone reach out to me asking if I would take any interns.

Because there was a student at my Alma mater who was looking for an internship and I was like, hell yeah, tell him to email me. We'll start something up. So actually like later today I have a video call with him to ask what he wants to work on of like the stuff of like my own projects that I can actually get him on.

He wants to do graphic design and art and I'm going to give him a paid internship. Cause I can like reasonably afford to do it right now.

Devin: [00:31:06] That's awesome. That's awesome. Both a you're in that kind of a position and that you specifically reached out to not only from your Alma mater, but for the same opportunity that you were, you were given.

Gabe: [00:31:18] Yes.

Devin: [00:31:19] The, the one question that I wanted to. To ask about cosplay. Just very specifically. Cosplay has always fascinated me.

It's just, it's a whole other like God brain level of talent and energy. When it comes to costume design. If you lived in a perfect world, Twitter didn't in exist money, wasn't a factor time. Wasn't a factor. What cosplay would you want to do?

Gabe: [00:32:15] Oh, that's a really good one. Money not a factor, time not a factor. I'm just, I'm just gonna go with one of the first thing that comes to mind. Let's skip, you know what I've done like a predator cosplay, but I want  a full decked out like body armor gauntlet, like. Visual effects. I want it all. I literally, that is one of my favorite costumes and I learned to, [trilling sound effect] like I  learned to do the trill.

Devin: [00:32:44] That was awesome. I thought that was a soundboard for the first second. And then that was incredible.

Gabe: [00:32:51] [Trilling sound] Like, yeah, I don't, I don't why I can do it, but I learned to do it  because I wanted to do it when I had like my mascot.

Devin: [00:32:59] I'm literally sitting here with my jaw on the floor. That was incredible.

Gabe: [00:33:02] Thank you.

Devin: [00:33:04] Yeah, that'd be fun. Getting a, you know, a, you know, a rotor activated like shoulder turret and everything I could, I could see it. That'd be fun.

Gabe: [00:33:15] or maybe a Gundam.

Devin: [00:33:18] Yeah. Right. A lot, a lot of 3D printing. .

Gabe: [00:33:21] Yup. That's the only, you said infinite, infinite time and money. That is the only reason that one comes up.

Devin: [00:33:27] You are right. You are totally right. you also stream on Twitch. Yeah?

Gabe: [00:33:47] Yes I do.

Devin: [00:33:48] Is that something you've recently gotten into or you've been chucking at that for awhile?

Gabe: [00:33:53] I've been on and off streaming for a while, but I didn't really do it consistently. And I do it consistently more now, because more than like trying to build a network on Twitch.

It's been more being able to enjoy things and still have like a little bit of social interaction at the same time. Like if I'm playing game or the other day, I literally just stream that was. I have a subscription license for music that I can play on my channel. And I literally just turned that music on, turned on my webcam sat and I was working while talking on Twitch stream.

And it was nice. Cause I had like all the company I had people to talk to while I was still trying to be productive. It was that nice social situation that I've been craving. And I got a hint of it digitally.

Devin: [00:34:42] That's awesome. That's a. A lot of people go into Twitch to get big, be the next fortnight star. So it's cool that you, you do that for you.

Gabe: [00:34:51] Yes.

Devin: [00:34:53] It also gives you a pretty good excuse to do some, some field research on, on games and things of the sort.

Gabe: [00:35:01] Yeah. One of my favorite games. I like, I like games that aren't the generic games people look to see, like I found a game called Kind Words that is s literally a game where you open it up. It has nice low-fi style music and. It's I think it's like $5 honestly. And you open it up and then you can write messages back to people, honestly. So it's people who post requests from mail of like they're having a hard time or this thing was really a struggle or like today was just a weird day or like I'm finally feeling happy about this thing that happened.

And then you can write a message to respond back to them anonymously that they'll get. And it's literally, I've, I've sat on the stream for like an hour or two, literally sitting there writing messages back to people who are having trouble or having a hard time. And then when I had posted something, myself, getting back messages that were enlightening or enriching, or just good, and it was one of the best experiences I'd had.

And I go back to it. Yeah. Every now and then, cause people are still playing it and people are still writing letters to each other. And I'm like, this was like a $5 experience and this like this it's a bad analogy, but it's like that almost like this, this was cheaper than therapy and made me feel ways. I didn't even know that I had.

Devin: [00:36:18] That's amazing. And then what was the name of that game? Again?

Gabe: [00:36:20] Kind words. K I N D W O R D S.

Devin: [00:36:24] I want to make sure to link it in the show notes. That way everybody can get an opportunity to check it out. Yeah. And then recently you've also been on the. Black AF Roundtable with a lot of other, you know, content creators that do work on, on Twitch. How has, how has that been?

Gabe: [00:36:42] That's been, it's been nice to openly have a situation where I, I am being told, "don't just be the Gabe that people see." Because people are, people have so many sides to them. And I do actively try to go out of my way to have a more positive presence on the internet if I can help it, but I can't always help it.

So sometimes I just leave the internet. So it was, it was nice to have a thing where it's like, okay, we know the world's messed up. Especially for people like us. So this is us having a conversation that other people can see us having this conversation amongst others, where we're not necessarily putting up the wall that "we're okay".

That doing great, that we're feeling great. And it was, it was good to be like, no, I am like mad and upset and like terrified. And here's why. And like tomorrow I might be fine next day. I might not be, but right now here's, here's why I'm mad. Cause it's, it is really hard.

I whenever I started game design stuff or cosplay stuff, I wanted people to know my work, but I didn't necessarily want to be known if that makes sense.

I, the idea of fame is awesome, but it's also terrifying and overwhelming, and I don't even want to be rich. I just want to make enough that I can live and be happy. Um, So like when there's, there's a bunch of people that look up to me and like, say like, Oh yeah, you're one of the bigger content creators.

And it's, it's like what?

 When I, when I went to PAX East, this past year, I had found out that there was a bunch of the people that I admired their work. And like was like, "Oh, they're so cool. It's like all these people." And I was like, introducing myself to these people. I wanted, like, I wanted to get to know them.

I wanted them to be like, "Hey, Oh, that was like that Gabe guy." And then I found out like months later that the majority of the people I had talked to already knew who I was. I'm like, what, why, why, why did you knew who I was. Or like there was, there was, um, I've been doing TikTok because TikTok is fun.

And then, uh, someone will tag me in a video, like, yeah. And like, then there was like one of the bigger D&D TikTok creators Gave James Games and I'm like, what the, what do you mean? No, I just post stupid videos. So it's, it's. It's it's important to be modest and I try to stay that way. And I think it's also like, not necessarily good learned behavior of overcoming, like personal fear and self doubt and stuff.

I don't even remember what I was talking about, to be honest. What were you talking about?

Devin: [00:39:26] Yeah, we were talking about the, uh, the Black AF Roundtable and working with other content creators on Twitch.

Gabe: [00:39:32] So it, it was good too. It was good to talk amongst each other and then share that because in that moment we were just people, we can still be content creators, but can still be people that other people admire that other people love our work, but we weren't.

And we were in a situation where we were sitting and talking to each other and we were not each other's numbers.

Devin: [00:39:56] Right. Which in a lot of those interview style shows, that's a big pull and a big play in them.

Gabe: [00:40:01] Yes. Cause I, I, no matter at the end of the day, as as much stuff as I do, I am still just a weird guy that lives in Pennsylvania.

I've been, I've been working on this game design stuff and struggling to get to a more comfortable point. But honestly, I had a part time job at Target. Two months ago that I've been in for three years and I was doing that to like pay my bills and afford to do this game design stuff. So even like the success that people have seen before or seen like the rising of, I'd say most of it really isn't something that's been a long time.

It's like more recent than anything.

Devin: [00:40:45] Well, I mean, I applaud your, your success, but it's also, it's, it's cool. Getting those glimpses. Uh, into it because, you know, everybody's got those cool stories where I recently just talked with, uh, Ivan van Norman. He was talking about one of his first gigs. He was also an assistant editor at the same time.

And he was working through his first Kickstarter and all that. So I think that's the part that everybody forgets with. The success you're seeing now is it could have been yesterday that you just left that Target job.

Gabe: [00:41:17] Yep, exactly. Like I, I had run my Kickstarter for my Goblin Dating SIM. I had been working on freelance stuff.

I had been doing my voice acting and all of this was while I still had my day job and I didn't have consistent hours. I couldn't control my hours. So I might have to be like, okay, well this day I get home at like nine o'clock, so we'll have to record them. Or it's like this day, I'm there from like five to nine.

So I have to get everything done early in the morning and it's, it's really getting that multitasking. And then finally getting to that point of like, Oh my gosh, it really all paid off even just a little bit.

Devin: [00:41:54] Yea, that's good. So what, what else, other than, I mean, we've already listed a laundry list of things that you work on.

Where, where do you find time for not working? Like what do you, what do you do in your, in your hobbies for your spare time? If there is such a thing.

Gabe: [00:42:11] There is an, I I've been making myself schedule time that I don't do stuff. Because the constant need to hustle is everywhere because it feels the fear of falling behind.

Um, so some days I'll literally like plan ahead and be like, no, Gabe, you've been working on these things every day for the last day of the week. And then I'll set like a phone alarm and I'm like put a thing on my calendar, on my wall saying. Don't work today, play games. And I'll either, I, I love sandbox games.

I love sandbox games because they're easy to pick up, put down and there's like nothing that I'm going to be worried that I forgot really when I come back to it. Or I've been spending more time outside because I live more in a woodsy area. So there's not really people around me and my dog loves going on walks.

And it's probably the only reason that I'm still relatively in shape.

Devin: [00:42:59] What kind of dog do you have?

Gabe: [00:43:00] So he is a golden retriever, a yellow lab beagle. So he weighs 70 pounds has a whole bunch of skin and things that he weighs like 20, but he does not. And he likes to steal things, especially my wallet. Because he has realized that if I pick up my wallet, then it means we're going to go in the car.

So now he takes my wallet to decide that we're going in the car. That's amazing.

Devin: [00:43:20] I have a yellow lab myself, so I know the chunky life.

Gabe: [00:43:23] Yes. Yeah, yeah. They're beautiful. Super kind. And then they think that they weigh like 12 pounds and I'm like, no, you're hefty.

Devin: [00:43:31] Yeah. Uh, my boy, he, he still thinks he's pocket-sized so he knocks into every table and chair and just, yup. No, no body awareness. He's just everywhere.

Gabe: [00:43:43] We love them, but, Hmm.

Devin: [00:43:46] Do you find time to still do like, you know, D&D, Pathfinder, things like that in your free time with a core group of friends or anything like that?

Gabe: [00:43:54] So I, I haven't in a while, I was on a couple of different streams shows and I enjoy doing stream stuff, but I also miss not doing stream stuff as much because.

When you're, when you're streaming something, you're performing a show. And when you're performing a show, there's the whole different level, a different level of pressure. Right. And it can be good, but can also be kind of crappy. So I've, I've been like slowly. As I meet new people or more people that I enjoy talking to them more that I enjoy playing with.

I've been like figuring out ideas for what I want to do for a home game. And I've actively made the effort to like, when people ask if I want to join something, it's, it's the hard process of saying no, but making sure that you do it because then again, it's like making sure you have free time. And if you are doing this thing and you're doing it because people want you there, but not because you necessarily want to be there, then it's a whole nother thing of work.

And if you overwork yourself, then you'll be exhausted. So I, I'm not in any home games right now. And I'm hoping to change that before August. Yes. Cause I've got all these plans and I'm like, I just need to, I just need to do it. It doesn't, it, it doesn't even have to be like big campaigns. I just, I'm probably going to try to do more one side games that are home games so that I can just start playing with new people.

Devin: [00:45:24] I very recently switched over to , one shots and I've progressively been making myself play another systems I've been looking into, you know, kids on bikes, tales from the loop, blades in the dark, stuff like that. So. I, I get the, you know, wanting to dive into the one shots, just cause it is, you know, long campaigns are hard, especially in this day and age.

Gabe: [00:45:42] Yeah.

Devin: [00:45:43] Okay. So I'm that covered all the questions that I, that I really had. Is there anything else you wanted to cover, highlight spotlight on your end?

Gabe: [00:45:53] Um, I want to see more people make things. I like, I like making things and I like when people enjoy the things that I make. And I also want to emphasize that a competitive environment does not mean that everything you do has to be a competition.

There is healthy competition, but if you make everything a competition, then it, it becomes less about community and more about looking over your shoulder or watching your back. And it's exhausting. You once to be able to see other people, make things and feel like you can support them, and then hope that they support you.

It does not have to always be an us versus them mentality when you're a creator and the ability to lift each other up. Even if we have game ideas that are similar is something that can be huge. It can lead to cross over. It can lead to collaboration. It can believe to the two things that we made potentially coming together to make this even better thing that more people can enjoy.

And I'm trying to make more things and. Emphasize on making something because it's fun and not try to focus on making something because I want to make something else look bad or worse. And I'm seeing it a lot and it like makes me sad. Cause it's it's

 That's touching back on that whole, the WOTC fall from grace, the creators of, of Quest, all of a sudden being thrust on that pedestal of no, here's your replacement.

Let's replace D&D I can only imagine the, the pressure that came from, you know, they just wanted a system that they enjoyed and they played in now you're the rival of D&D, go to it.

Yep. It's, it's popping up a lot more and I understand why it's happening. It just there's I it's, it's really, it's really strange.

It's it's hard trying to figure out what is the best thing for people as a whole. And there's, there's always going to be situations where it's, it's just not perfect. And I think we need to emphasize, you can enjoy. More than one thing you don't have to be solely faithful to this one system. The system does not have to be your child.

And if this system is your child, consider the fact that it's a good thing. When multiple people help raise a baby, right?

Devin: [00:48:14] Exactly. The village, yeah.

Gabe: [00:48:16] It takes a village. And that's like from my game design stuff, Um, I was doing a lot of Hidden Treasures by myself. I had brought on a team for like art and some of the writing, but I was still trying to do a majority of myself.

And then I was like, I can't do this. And or if I do do this, it's going to suffer because I'm trying to do everything and I don't want it to suffer. I want this game to be the best that I can make it. I went to invest my time, my money into it and making it happen. And the majority of the team that I ended up pulling in for Hidden Treasures, more than three fourths of them had never . worked in games before, like in any facet.

Devin: [00:48:58] That's interesting.

Gabe: [00:48:59] Yeah. It's and it's, it's all people that I, when I saw examples of stuff that they did or wanted to like sift that they could do, it was impressive. I didn't pick people just because I was like, yeah, you can probably do it. I had like actually reviewed stuff that they'd done and the writing was good, or they knew how to grasp the concept of branching the story, or like the concept art was phenomenal and brought in ideas I had never even considered.

And then when I had that and realized that this is. Their first game credit. I'm like, Oh my gosh. It's, it's, it's back to the idea of when you open that door for people, you can actively see what they can do.

Devin: [00:49:38] That's awesome.

Gabe: [00:49:39] Yeah.

Devin: [00:49:39] I am very glad that we got the opportunity to chat. Like I said, it's, it's a very competitive market out there and you have a very good head and a very good pulse on not only your brand, but just a good direction for. for games and just creatives in general. So thank you so much for, for taking the time to jump on the show and chat with me about all of this.

Absolutely. Thank you for having me, I like talking about this stuff. I like talking about it. Cause even, even no matter how much bad there is, we can acknowledge the bad and good and then figure out a way to do better.

Gabe: [00:50:14] I'm just going to leave that as the sign off. That was beautiful.

Devin: [00:50:19] Thank you.

Now, one of the things that I like to do at the end of the show is do a character building exercise.

Gabe: [00:50:25] Let's do it.

Devin: [00:50:26] Okay. So I'm going to give you a backpack. This is a proverbial Pat and inside of it are a couple of tools. Traits, and you can take a minute to, to build out a character of these things.

It doesn't have to be fantasy. It doesn't have to be apocalyptic. It could be modern day, but just going for like who they are, what mission they're on and a little bit about their environment, just off the things in their pack.

Okay?

Gabe: [00:50:54] Okay.

Devin: [00:50:54] Okay. So the items that were drawn for, for this pack are a torch or a flashlight, a pack of playing cards. Several coins of varying nationalities, a compass and pent-up aggression.

Gabe: [00:51:11] I'm done.

Devin: [00:51:12] Alright, go for it.

Gabe: [00:51:13] So it's a character named Leon Ohms. He came across a, something is like a cream, like a creature in an alleyway that almost had like, you know, that opera mask, but it's like the picture where there's the two different faces next to each other.

Devin: [00:51:28] Comedy and tragedy.

Gabe: [00:51:29] Yes. Thank you. So if it's a figure that had that, but it's like, it was like halfway blended. So then it's, it's the left side of their eye is one of the eyes of comedy and the right side of our eyes. One of the eyes of tragedy and a mask still go out and there there's like a group of friends and maybe like two, three others with Leon and they're walking down and they're a little intoxicated and they see that figure down at the end of the alleyway and the figure pulls out.

So I'm playing cards and asks if they want to play a game. Now, when they look around themselves, everything has like turned to black and it's almost as if they're just standing in a dark room and is now a table standing in front of them. Leon walks up to the table with the rest of the friends and the figure asks if they want to gamble.

Now, they all think that they're a little drunk and think this is just a performance or a magic trick. So they go up, they put like money down on the table and the figure puts down unknown coins of. Different nationalities, no idea where they are. And Leon is actually the only one who wins the hand. But as the others have lost the hand, they essentially like turn to Ash and then their Ash is pulled into a jar.

The figure looks at Leon and says, well, I guess you've won this time. And then disappears into the night. And as Leon wakes up and comes to, he basically like. Falls into a large trashcan. As he climbs out, he can see the ashes of where his friends were. And there seems to be a flashlight and a compass in their place.

He picks it up and the compass is pointing somewhere. And as he's turning around, he turns to the place it's pointing, but it's literally just a wall that seems feed through. He turns on the flashlight to see if he can see, get a better look on the wall. But as he turns on the flashlight of blue, go comes out and it reveals the wall actually is a theory and there's a long hallway.

It goes down a hallway that couldn't be seen without the flashlight and there's anger in his eyes and aggression.

Devin: [00:53:39] That was awesome.

Gabe: [00:53:42] Thank you.

Devin: [00:53:43] Have you ever played 10 candles?

Gabe: [00:53:45] No.

Devin: [00:53:46] Oh man. So the game concept is you sit around, uh, 10 tea, light candles, and any time a character dies or you move from one scene to another, you put out one of these candles when all 10 are out and everyone's dead. The goal is everyone dies at the end.

Gabe: [00:54:03] Yeah.

Devin: [00:54:03] So that had the setup for a cool 10 candles game. But the whole intent of this is just for the listeners to get a little bit of brain stimulation for. Character development scene development. And I mean, in what, three minutes there you gave us the whole intro to brilliant comic series, a television show. Like that was, that was awesome. And you can really feel a lot of the, you know, the work that you do on a daily basis. No off the tongue, you're just like, Oh yeah, I got it.

Gabe: [00:54:33] Yeah. My brain just goes wild.

Devin: [00:54:36] So thank you for doing that. That was awesome. And again, thank you so much for jumping on this call with me.

Gabe: [00:54:43] It was fun.

Devin: [00:54:45] I'm glad. I'm glad. That's my goal. I just want to have good fun conversations where both walk away with something.

Gabe: [00:54:51] Yes.

Devin: [00:54:51] Anyways. Thank you again so much, and I hope we can, you know, stay connected on the Twitter verse and have you back on the show in the future. Cause I know you're working on a lot of things.

Gabe: [00:55:02] Oh yeah. There'll be new things.

Devin: [00:55:03] And I would love to talk about those sometime, sometime in the future.

Gabe: [00:55:08] Perfect. Sounds good to me.

Devin: [00:55:10] Cool. Thank you so much. And you have a lovely rest of your day. You too.

Thank you.

Bri: [00:55:26] Tuning into this episode of Bardic Babble. Bardic Babel is a part of the Bard podcast networks, family of shows. You can find Bardic Babel and all of our other shows at thebardpodcast.com. Be sure to rate, review and subscribe to this show for updates on new episodes.

We can't wait to share the next story with you.